Finch finch-fink FTDNA DNA

Y-DNA shows a match between Finch and Finn, but ‘hotspot’ distribution concurs with Carl Finch that his Y-DNA likely took the low (Smith) road to Ireland not going through the border region, but crossing a Y-DNA bridge from about Lancashire into Dublin, likely Gaelic, and a lot Anglicized to the number one US surname Smith, beginning to show at first English, and now showing Irish DNA. Finding for a lot of people the surname ‘Smith’, is what Gaelic names in and around Dublin, are Anglicized to. https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/23andME-Geni-FTDNA-mtDNA-H27a-Ryan-Murph-Smith-Croak..jpg https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3210028?dpr=2&fit=max&h=411&w=590 https://forebears.io/surnames/croak In 1881 England census for surname Croak; Middlesex 14, Lancashire 9, and Kent 4. Carl your family it is to my understanding to where I need to go next, his family goes to where there is a concentration of my autosomal DNA, County Mayo. Carl Finch November 22 @ 7:43am “Mark, I came from Ohio and many there were Methodists. I did find a close match in the name of Conn, distance 1 in 25 markers from county Mayo (Ireland). My father told me that he thought his ancestors were German Hessian soldiers in Revolutionary war, most likely named Fink. That would more likely fit your German heritage.” Anglican>Episcopalian>Methodist. Where Gary Finn takes the Anglo Border road of the well used surname name Young, adopted along both sides of the border, from being a Young, like Young Dand [Elliot], where the older a Dand (Andrew) Elliot, and the younger a Dand Young.https://books.google.com/books?id=1T8NTKgBCLwC&pg=PA588&dq=Border+Papers+Young+Dand+Elliot&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiS0-joiejmAhXOGs0KHfOZA_0Q6AEwAHoECAQQAg#v=onepage&q=Border%20Papers%20Young%20Dand%20Elliot&f=false like Gary Finn (implies Finnish-Scandinavian, showing Finn distribution showing above well spread in Germany), takes the high road further north through the Borderlands, onto Ulster [North(ern) Ireland]. Though the Y-DNA matches the names Finch and Finn do not match, indicating a split, in the name, not the Y-DNA, which would have had an earlier Y-DNA formation, likely out of Germany. https://i.etsystatic.com/6852474/r/il/48d782/428917051/il_570xN.428917051_hok7.jpg https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/

The concept to use 23andMe; https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/23andME-Geni-FTDNA-mtDNA-H27a-Ryan-Murph-Smith-Croak..jpg https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3210028?dpr=2&fit=max&h=411&w=590 Came from a guide team video at Rootstech 2019; 2020 is at end of February, in Salt Lake City, Utah https://www.rootstech.org/ https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Your-DNA-Guide-Team-YOU-Can-Do-DNA-12-8-2019.jpg https://www.rootstech.org/video/you-can-do-dna https://www.yourdnaguide.com/about Guide team shows that various Y-DNA corporations have their attributes.

Samuel Fruck IE Finch in the 1870 United States Federal Census View1870 United States Federal Census View blank form View/Add alternate info Report issue Name: Samuel Fruck [Samuel Finch] Age in 1870: 43 Birth Year: abt 1827 Birthplace: New York Dwelling Number: 279 Home in 1870: Erin, Chemung, New York Race: White Gender: Male Post Office: North Chemung Occupation: Farmer Male Citizen over 21: Y Personal Estate Value: 600 Real Estate Value: 1700 Inferred Spouse: Lucy Fruck Inferred Children: Almond Fruck John Fruck Ida Fruck Franklin Fruck Delphine Fruck Anson Fruck Frederick Fruck Household Members: Name Age Samuel Fruck 43 Lucy Fruck 42 Almond Fruck 13 John Fruck 11 Ida Fruck 9 Franklin Fruck 7 Delphine Fruck 4 Anson Fruck 2 Frederick Fruck 2/12 Elisha Beckwith 75 Anna Beckwith 74 Now the in-laws are living with Samuel. Samuel Furch in the 1860 United States Federal Census View1860 United States Federal Census Name: Samuel Furch [Samuel Finch] Age: 32 Birth Year: abt 1828 Gender: Male Birth Place: New York Home in 1860: Erin, Chemung, New York Post Office: Erin Centre Dwelling Number: 684 Family Number: 633 Occupation: Farmer Real Estate Value: 350 Personal Estate Value: 200 Household Members: Name Age Samuel Furch 32 Lucy C Furch 31 Almond O Furch 2 John P O Furch 1

https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Furch,1890:Furck,1890:Furk https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Furch,1890:Firch,1890:Fich,1890:Finck Not finding ‘Finch’ in 1890 Germany, but the closest is ‘Finck’, where in German ‘Fink’, means in English ‘finch’. The ‘ch’ sometimes exchanges with the ‘k’, like in ‘elch/elk’ (moose).

Mark Elliott, thanks for the above research. I have a family visitor at present and will have to study your above info later this week.

Mark Elliott, I joined the DNA groups you requested. Thanks.

Would like to contact 144133 Finch. thanks, Carl Finch. Mark Elliott, I can go back farther than Abraham A. Finch, but don’t have documentation to prove it. The worst thing in Genealogy research is to assume ancestors.

Mark Elliott, I have sent two emails to Lloyd Finch, 144133. He hasn’t replied.

If it gets to be to much I can delete the already access data.

The Bruce, of Robert de Bruce (does not seem to carry I-M253 https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bruce?iframe=yresults), are a strong family in Annandale, related to the I-M253 https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/ScreenHunter_413-Jan.-22-17.20.jpg Carruthers of Karruthers; https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Mouswald-Karruthers-Annan.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Karruthers-Carruthers.png The Armstrong and Elliott, were supported by the Black Douglas, do not think he married a Maguire, but feel the blood was in him of Liddesdale which carried the heart of Robert the Bruce, but did not make it to the Promise Land. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sir_James_Douglas_heart_casket.JPG Is next to the heart of Archibald ‘Bell the Cat’ Douglas known above as ‘Angus’ because he is the fifth Earl of Angus, which passed lands to there family squire Robert Elwald lands of Redheugh and Larriston, (Wm Elwald of Gorrenberry my many great) Note: Walter Scott son of David of Buccleuch; Duke of Buccleuch, and Walter Kerr of Cessford, Duke of Roxburghe, near Kelso; Fratri brother may be of Ferniehirst; Duchess of Buccleuch, and chief of Clan Kerr (Carr adult accuser at Salem Trials). Fernihirst ‘Kerr’, and the Cessford/Roxburgh ‘Ker”, guess because they are family are known to fight. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Sasine_deed_1484_for_Robert_Elwald_%28Elliot%29%2C_Redheugh%2C_Larriston%2C_Hartsgarth.jpg where our 29th Clan Chief Margart Eliott of Redheugh lives today. I am sure she still wears a steel bonnet, and she looks on me as a ‘vagabound’. Do you think she knows Buccleuch’s wife Elizabeth, now I know I am in big trouble. Figure 17th cousin because chief first exception is her, is first son, and twice removed. Am from the ninth of ten Robert Elwald then the surname became Ellot, after the ‘ellot’, those which farmed ‘lots’, measured onside with the standard of the 16th century, in length the Edinburgh ‘el’. Remember Scotland at the time was a separate kingdom. When the monarchs of both kingdoms were related, that is the time the monarchs did not seem to like the ‘Armstrong and Elliott’, the Stobs-Redheugh Eliott were taken in by the Buccleuch Scot. https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Buccleuch-lands-of-Mangerton-Gorrenberry-Whithaugh-and-Elliot-of-Midlem-mill.png https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Clan-Armstrong-tartan-and-clan-badge-in-German.png It should be noted; that the I-M253 Elliott are related to the Fairbairn (children of Fay Bear), https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Fairbairn-I-M253-Elliott-Viking-add-mix.png and the name Armstrong is an evolved name from Alexandir Armystrand (army strand along Liddell Water), Armestrang (army strong of Scotland) https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Scottish-Clans-Armstrong-BBC-Stewart-kings.mp4 (Anna Groundwater has published book titled THE SCOTTISH MIDDLE MARCH 1573-1625). Refer to the I-M223 ‘Proto-Celtic’ (Kotter, Utah; spelled Kötter in Germany), and I-M253, as a late Viking-Saxon admix to my R-U106 ‘Proto-Germanic’ Y-DNA. https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/54E19CAFF9AC2BEB39EAEC826BEDBC63/S0003598X16001939a.pdf/people_of_the_british_isles_project_and_viking_settlement_in_england.pdf Authors; Jane Kershaw & Ellen C. Røyrvik; [Jane Kershaw; ker (cherry) or Ker, shaw (orchard) Anglo-English, & Ellen C. Røyrvik Norwegian (red bay)] https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Proto-Germanic-U106-M223-M253.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Elwald-from-Schinkel-1024×754.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Comparison-U106-to-Ewald-surname-to-Germanic-groups-1024×370.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2359516.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Genetic-History-UK-follows-U106-migration-history-1024×474.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/U106-Y-DNA-along-with-name-changes-personal-then-surname.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PoBI-Viking.jpg https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rutledge/activity-feed

Douglas Finch March 8, 2017 @ 2:18pm these are the New York FINCH boys Almon, Franklin, John, Frederick, Anson (who is my great grandfather. Their father was Samuel Finch 1827-1908 and their mother Lucy Beckwith 1829-1908. I am trying to determine who Samuel’s father was. John is the only brother to have left the state and he went to California with his sons and only returned to NY one time. This was when the picture was taken. 1940’s. Like

Mark, there is no doubt that you are doing great research and am sure that you can handle the research.

The amount of material is getting to be a bit overwhelming for me. Being a graduate mining engineer, Dec 1979 from U of UT, with utilizing the Family History Library and before that the upper level of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints office building (dad also utilized this library on the floors of the LDS office building), know how good these Mormon researchers are, they sure beat Harvard on the east cost and Stafford on the west coast, can use a bit of help in this situation. The architects family which put the northern addition on the Hotel Utah, just south of the offices, on the east side of Main and Temple Square, his family was one of those Pioneers of 1847 which migrated into the Salt Lake Valley, with Brigham Young, a good Anglo-Border Reiving name. He is a high school grad, and passed his architectural exams for the state of Utah. Really I could use some help. Trying to research my families Y-DNA line back in time. Have a lot of help from research of the 29th Chief’s Margaret Eliott’s father Sir Arthur and his mother. Book was accessible in the Family History Library. Library; https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/312616?availability=Family%20History%20Library The Elliots : the story of a border clan, a genealogical history Statement of Responsibility: by the Dowager Lady Eliott of Stobs and Sir Arthur Eliott, 11th Baronet of Stobs Authors: Eliott, Dora, Lady, 1890- (Main Author) Magaret’s grandmother, Arthur’s mom. Eliott, Arthur, Baron, 1915- (Added Author) For some reason now it is in off site storage. It looks like may be I am being helped. “1591-1670 Robert Ellot the 17th. Lived in a new tower at Larriston. Redheugh declined in importance and, after the suppression of the clan system in 1605 and the imprisonment of Robert, the towers were probably destroyed and Robert’s tenants and followers dispersed. Redheugh was settled on Robert’s daughter, Margaret, in 1637 on her marriage to James Ellot, a younger son of Stobs. Their descendants were the Elliots of Larriston.” http://www.elliotclan.com/history/redheugh/ http://clancrozier.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/AglionbyPlatt.jpg (north end of map on Liddell Flu of Liddesdale, like Scotsman; Eric Liddell ‘Chariots of Fire’, 1924 Olympics in France) Where Neil Armstrong’s home town, and the Duke of Buccleuch, home is at is on the 1590 map as ‘Langhame’, to make it English turn the ‘a’ to ‘o’ it becomes ‘Longhome’. For ‘Brigham’, ‘rig’ means ‘ridge’, and ‘brig’ means ‘bridge’, and ‘ham’ is ‘hom(e)’, so ‘Brigham’ means; ‘Bridgehome’. ‘Brigham’ is a place name in the United Kingdom. ‘Hawick’, Scotland on old maps is spelled ‘Haik’, in English pronounced as ‘hoik’, the ‘a’ for purposes of pronunciation is changed to an ‘o’. It should be noted that there was an American community of Japanese descent relocated, in the Building of the First Salt Palace Arena, the place towards end of FEB 2020 is planned for Rootstech https://www.rootstech.org/. https://books.google.com/books?id=Fh9OAQAAIAAJ&q=Japanese+relocated+Salt+Palace&dq=Japanese+relocated+Salt+Palace&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjK9IrN7KbmAhVLvZ4KHcr_A7wQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-japanese-american-hero-hiroshi-20170703-htmlstory.html “Hiroshi Miyamura and his hometown had a lot in common. They believed in America.” By JOE MOZINGOSTAFF JULY 3, 2017, Hiroshi Miyamura met and still alive is our hometown hero, in Gallup, NM, USA. Gallup, NM – Most Patriotic Small Town in America – Rand McNally Best of the Road Submission Sep 26, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThGsXzfZ4gg

Mark, I came from Ohio and many there were Methodists. I did find a close match in the name of Conn, distance 1 in 25 markers from county Mayo (Ireland). My father told me that he thought his ancestors were German Hessian soldiers in Revolutionary war, most likely named Fink. That would more likely fit your German heritage.

Came over in c1650, Boston, from London, but Daniel Elliot family was exiled by Border Pacification to Ireland in 1607, then transported as a slave by the Cromwellian, Parliamentarian? genocide government of the UK. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/SELLING-SCOTS-AS-SLAVES-IS-FUNNY-TO-THE-TORIES-2.mp4?_=1 We had to deal with being refugees to an actual American Witchhunt; https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ECS-Daniel-group-history-1.png https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Anna-Hannah-Elliott-child-lost-in-Salem.jpg https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/A6724.jpg https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/James-Donald-and-Mark-Elliott-tree-LDS-Mesa-AZ-thankyou-1024×445.jpg https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Daniel-Elliot-of-Sudbury-of-Marlborough.jpg https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Daniel-Elliot-Salem-End-map-plus-Oxford-insert.jpg https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Framingham-Vitals.png Line found in Tullykelter, Fermanagh, Ulster, Ireland 1610. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullykelter_Castle Many great Daniel Elliot left testimony for Elizabeth Proctor of Arthur Millers play The Crucible; http://salem.lib.virginia.edu/n106.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crucible Which at a time when I was you of McCarthyism witch hunt Black Listing; showed the importance which I do not have on many FTDNA blogs, and incorporated in the Constitution of the United States taken for granted by the indigenous first Americans and that is to SPEAK FREELY especially about ones family.

Carl Finch, Built this link; https://elwald.com/brigham-this-is-the-place-genealogy-with-dna-applied/ For the school which I feel has the highest standard in genealogical genetics, not Puritan Harvard on the east cost, or Stafford on the west coast, but a school which has a name of an Anglo-Border Reiver, called Brigham Young University, and has an extensive department on DNA-genetics. Based on offering their church to their ancestors, have the top genealogical library called the Family History Library, FHL, Salt Lake City, Utah, and Family History Centers/Centres throughout the world, along with a free family history site online; https://www.familysearch.org/ which is available to all at no cost. Found these Mormons, Mormon volunteers, professional genealogists, which utilized the data base before the internet to be top level researchers, and having this bases of genealogical and family search, can add DNA as a tool to their genealogical tool box. Do not expect anyone to utilize the above link. Found it measurable to how many are addressing it, except those which are truly family searches and seekers, of which many Mormon grew up with being family history seekers and searchers, and that is why this link is addressed to only those which do family searching and seeking the family historian genealogists.

Interesting, Mark Elliott. Thanks for the input.

Names for the most part, with maybe the exception of a place name, have various origins. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3336470?dpr=2&fit=max&h=411&w=590 Germany a ‘Grünwald’; grün wald (green forest) Is an example of a name from the Germanic language which I match twelve markers exactly, and the people of the name are concentrated in the region, which has a Germanic place name description with it. Did not migrate and change and locality is of where a number of ‘wolf’ are of, and Germany and America utilize the older name Wolf as a surname. Wolf is a surname strongly used in Germany and a large number in the US also use that surname. Keep asking myself; how after more than thirty generations a line of over a billion grandparents; How can I not be related? http://wolfeducationinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/GermanyWolfMap.png Wolfs eat elk (moose), and the elk (moose) are beginning to show where those wolfs are at. It is like those wolfs are waiting on those moose to show up. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/elk-elg-elch-moose-distribution-Germany.png Man, also eats elk (moose). They as smaller in numbers going back many centuries would have likely waited on the elk (moose) also. If you lived back then, what would you want to eat?

My DNA: (Arthur W. Finch) YDNA37, R-Z198,R-M269, and mtDNA Halogroup I. Check Familytree DNA for Linage. Kit# 40338.Exact Match:Confirmes my Linnage to (Sweden): Nicholas Larsson Frande/FRIEND my 9th GGrandfather Born:1594–1658 and therefore to Catherine Friend Peck, Born 1735-1790 and the Wife of Conrad Peck. THE FINCH FAMILY DESCENDED FROM HENRY FITZHERBERT, CHAMBERLAIN OF KING HENRY I, AND ANCESTOR OF THE HERBERTS, EARLS OF PEMBROKE. THEY ARE THOUGHT TO HAVE CHANGED THEIR NAME TO FINCH AFTER MARRIAGE TO AN HEIRESS DAUGHTER OF AN EARLIER FINCH FAMILY.

The name Fitzherbert reached English shores for the first time with the ancestors of the Fitzherbert family as they migrated following the Norman Conquest of 1066. The name Fitzherbert is based on the English, French, and German personal name of Herbert, is made up of the elements, heri, which means army, and berht, which means bright. The prefix Fitz indicated that the bearer was the son of someone named Herbert. As Knights and Lords took over the Lands and holdings of other Propertys and or acres and holdings they sometimes took on the name of that place. This was done in order to identify with the Coat of Arms of that manor or Castle. Such was the case with Fitzherbert changing to Finche or Finch.

Carl and I for our surname do not carry the major Y-DNA. For Carl Finch of the Finch family the standard Y-DNA, and I, Mark Elliott, do not carry the standard Y-DNA for the Elliott family, but Carl Finch and I match at 25 markers which means in time we are related. Carl Finch have name Y-DNA matches with Finn, Finnie, and maybe Finrock, which would take time to branch. Most likely the name given census surname distribution, would be of Finn or Finch, from the region of East Anglia, and The Fenns, Fenland. Question would be for Carl did Finn become Finch or Finch become Finn. Since there has been deviation from the name this in no way, may I say no way would affect the naming pattern for those which do not carry Carl and mine’s odd ball Y-DNAs. It is felt though a lot of people do not seem believe, my lineage is compatible to what is given by Arthur Finch above. Anglo-Scots Borderer. https://elwald.com/brigham-this-is-the-place-genealogy-with-dna-applied/

Thanks, Mark Elliott. Really appreciate the help.

Mark Elliott, you may be right about me being Proto-Germanic R-U106. Back in 2017, I had my DNA tested by MyHeritage for $95 dollars. The test came back saying I was 96.2% from the area of Germany and France (North and West European). 3.5% Irish, Scottish and Welch.

Some reason, would like response, 23andMe puts me at what FTDNA and Yseq R-S163631. which is down stream from U106. FTDNA could do a lot more if one is downstream they are also in the SNP upstream from them, and should be included in those groups upstream also. R-M269>U106>Z2265>BY30097>S12025>S16361> Maybe not far upstream, because it gets quite crowed the further upstream one goes, an out of genealogical time. Most SNP like S16361 the lower one really do not reach in to genealogical time frame, but with some they are beginning to, and it is felt that the FTDNA geneticists, need to realize that the SNP needs to apply to genealogy not prehistoric people.

Mark Elliott, hey cousin, your comments were very enlightened for me. I see that Mic added your DNA to the Finch Y-DNA grouping.

Carl Finch, If next to you starting with 14 our first 25 markers would show match. Feel given map with all the name ‘Fenn’ in Cambridge region island in the Fenlands, and ‘Finn’ used as a surname in the matches, that ‘Finn’, came from ‘Fenn’. Chief puts us back to the twelve century; https://elwald.com/clan-elliot-29th-chief-margaret-eliott-of-redhuegh-stobs/ as a clan. The Armstrong and Elliott rode together in the borderlands until exiled to Ulster, or exterminated, by James VI or Scotland becoming James I of England and driving us off the Borderlands for his making of a Middle Shires. The Chronicles of the Armstrong, have the Elwald-Elliot of the Crowland-Croyland region in them with input of Armstrong from around the world; https://archive.org/details/chroniclesofarms00arms/page/n13 Given surname density patterns of Finn, and Finch in the region this is where I think our Y-DNA crossed paths. Elwald is an Anglo-Saxon name, becoming for me Elliott, as indicated by my Proto-Germanic R-U106 Y-DNA, with the Daniel Elliot Cluster first found in Massachusetts Colony. https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ECS-Daniel-group-history-1.png Note; 101829 Germany R-S16361 https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CaveFamilyHistorySocietyDNA?iframe=yresults 101829 Elwald de Schinkel Germany R-S16361 https://www.familytreedna.com/public/scarborough?iframe=yresults more so with Gresham-Grisham-Grissom, of Gresham, Norfolk, but all located near North Sea 101829 Elliott Germany R-S16361 https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Gresham_Grissom?iframe=yresults It should be I have many matches for the first twelve markers of place names along the North Sea for Gresham, Norfolk, North and South Cave, East Riding Yorkshire, and for Scorborough (Yorkshire) and/or Scarborough, UK. PoBi people been helping also; People of the British Isles Population Genetics and Facial Genetics https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ Garrett Hellenthal – The Genetic History of the United Kingdom: the POBI project https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pobi https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/people-of-the-british-isles-project-and-viking-settlement-in-england/54E19CAFF9AC2BEB39EAEC826BEDBC63 https://www.yourdnaguide.com/ydgblog/2018/10/19/ancestor-reconstruction