FTDNA J2 M172 YDNA DNA

Posted on April 22, 2020 by

lawismarkellot — No Comments ↓

Shadrack Kiptoo Biwott – Wikipedia

Chronicles of the Armstrongs; : Armstrong, James Lewis : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

google.com – search: GENEALOGY GARAGE Scottish Prisoners of War

Dunbar Castle & Mary, Queen of Scots (marie-stuart.co.uk)

The History of Liddesdale, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Wauchopedale and the … – Robert Bruce Armstrong – Google Books

Robert Bruce Armstrong — the Irish and the Highland Harps (wirestrungharp.com)

Chronicles of the Armstrongs; : Armstrong, James Lewis : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Re: Elliotts of County Donegal – Genealogy.com

The History of Liddesdale, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Wauchopedale and the … – Robert Bruce Armstrong – Google Books

Robert Bruce Armstrong — the Irish and the Highland Harps (wirestrungharp.com)

1545-1569 – Scotland. Privy Council – Google Books

named – Map your surname across the UK (publicprofiler.org)

Search the Muster Rolls (therjhuntercollection.com)

FamilyTreeDNA – Irwin Clan Surname Project (updated)

The History of Liddesdale, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Wauchopedale and the … – Robert Bruce Armstrong – Google Books

FTDNA-101829-autosomal-Y-DNA-mtDNA.jpg (1226×944) (elwald.com)

Eliot Surname Origin, Meaning & Last Name History (forebears.io)

Discover the Eliot family with Your Family History (your-family-history.com)

The History of Liddesdale, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Wauchopedale and the …– Robert Bruce Armstrong – Google Books

Acts of Scottish Parliament 1587 (Clan Thompson) pdf

The History of Liddesdale, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Wauchopedale and the … – Robert Bruce Armstrong – Google Books

Chronicles of the Armstrongs; : Armstrong, James Lewis : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Johnnie Armstrong (Roud 76; Child 169) (mainlynorfolk.info)

In the Ulster Muster Rolls of 1630; Tullykelter, Co Fermanagh, Ulster, names are Armstrong, Armestrong, Armestrang, Curruthers, Ellot, Rutledge, Johnston, Scot. Fought for Charles II, of Charleston, SC, Charlestown, MA, Charlestown, Nevis Island, West Indies, where Alexander Hamilton was born and today has a concentration of Elliott We married those Maguire, McManus, and McGovern, as we married the Grame-Graeme-Græme-Graham-Greene, though they do not want to admit it sometimes. Alexander Bell took Graham as a middle-name, granddad Mark Elliott denied Hammer as a middle name. Mark and Hammer where surnames of both his grandmothers. If my name was to follow suit it after my grandmothers it would have been, Spencer Ryan Elliott, but I was named after my grandfathers instead as Mark Stephen Elliott, dad Loren Spencer Elliott did accept his mother’s maiden name as a middle name. MSE 3-22-2024

The Annals of a Border Club (the Jedforest): And Biographical Notices of the … – George Tancred – Google Books

Scottish Poetry Selection – Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me?(rampantscotland.com)

There is ane, callit Clement’s Hob,
Fa ilk puir wife reivis her wob,
And all the lave,
Whatever they have:
The devil resave therefor his gob!

Poetry Explorer- Classic Contemporary Poetry, AGAINST [OR, AGANIS] THE THIEVES OF LIDDESDALE, by RICHARD MAITLAND

One does not get to choose their ancestors. You, are born with them. At least there are genealogical records on my family. Mark Stephen Elliott 1/19/2024

Discover the Green family with Your Family History (your-family-history.com)

Discover the Greene family with Your Family History (your-family-history.com)

Daniel Elliot (1637–1704) • FamilySearch

RUSH99LSE

477.Emma Ona [RUSH] ELLIOTT) [9] [261. Aaron 8, Benjamin 7, James 6,
Benjamin II 5, Wm. IV 4, Wm. III 3, Wm. II 2, Wm. I 1] born 17 Nov 1867 in
Rice Twp, Ringgold Co, IA, and died in Mt Ayr, IA, 1 Aug 1963. She married 10
Jul 1887 in the Methodist parsonage in Mt Ayr to Alamando Wilcox ELLIOTT
born 11 May 1865 in Avon, Fulton Co, IL. His parents were Rev. Sherburn
Alamando and Louisa Marie [Mark] ELLIOTT. `Al’ came to Iowa at the age of
three. His father was a pioneer Methodist circuit rider in southeast Iowa and
family moved frequently until moving to Rice Twp in 1871 to farm. His
grandfather, Rev. William F. Mark, was also a pioneer Methodist circuit rider
also serving in Illinois and Iowa with his last charge in Redding, Ringgold Co, IA.
After marriage, Emma and `Al’ settled on farm purchased in 1890 from his
father in Rice Twp where they lived until they moved to Mt Ayr in 1915. They
purchased in 1907 an additional 40 acres on the west side of this initial 80 acre
farm. This farm was rented to their oldest son, Mark, in 1915 and they retired
to Mt Ayr. They sold this farm in 1934 to this son. Their home in Mt. Ayr was
located at the present site if the Clearview Care Home for senior citizens.
Emma was the first resident of this fine center. They were active members of
the Methodist Church, having joined at Eureka east of Delphos, IA. `Al’ at five
feet eleven inches towered over his five-foot three-inch father. He detested the
name `Alamando’ and much preferred his friends to call him `Al’ or `A.W.’ He is
remembered for his fine sense of humor and cheerful disposition, always seeing
the bright side of everything. He enjoyed quoting poetry – generally ending by
giving credit to an author that may or may not have existed. He chewed
tobacco, always ‘saucered’ his coffee, and said `grace’ before every meal. The
`carom board’ was always readily available when the grandchildren arrived for
overnight stays. Alice, felt she gave these for nothing. The railroad
bordered the north edge of their lots with a trestle bridge crossing the street
bordering them on the east. They owned one automobile purchased new – a
1928 Whippet. Emma did the driving as `Al’s eyesight was very poor, having
lost an eye at the age of nine when a boyhood friend accidentally struck him
with an axe while watching him chop wood. Their house had a well located in
the east porch and a cave just east between house and garage. East of the
garage was the commonly referred to `two holer’ with that adjacent to a low
ceiling hen house with both covered with grape vines. They kept about a dozen
Rhode Island Red hens that produced very few eggs. She always had a jar full
of thick sugar cookies that really weren’t very good but she was a tremendous
grandma! They both enjoyed gardening and had many peach trees. Children of
Emma and `Al’;
800. i. Florence Modessa Elliott b. 9 Apr 1888 d. 9 Sep 1984
801. ii. Avis L. Elliott b. 5 Oct 1889 d. 30 Oct 1890
802. iii. Mark (nmn)3 Elliott b. 13 Mar 1891 d 30 Nov 1976
803. iv. Rees Wells Elliott b. 3 Feb 1893 d. 13 Mar 1919
804. v. Ethel L. Elliott b. 12 Aug 1894 d. 21 Jan 1899

3Mark was given the surnames of his two grandmothers – Mark & Hammer. He detested this combination and had
his name legally changed to “Mark” with no middle name. Suspect he was teased about his name as a kid. LSE.

805. vi. Hazel Bernice Elliott b. 22 Jul 1897 d. 14 Sep 1985
806. vii. Gladys Marie Elliott b. 30 Nov 1901 d. 15 Nov 1978
807. viii. Alice Marguerite Elliott b. 7 Nov 1907 d. 7 Jun 1984

https://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Loren-S-Elliott-Rush-Family-Research-documents.pdf

https://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/misc-Rush-family_1-30.pdf

https://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Rush-Virginia-Kentucky-Iowa.pdf

https://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/misc-Rush-family_31-60.pdf

https://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Rush-Family.jpg

John Elwald of St. Andrews pdf

John & Robert Elwald of York Hexam pdf

Clan Crozier (electricscotland.com)

Family Tree DNA 的创始人贝内特·格林斯潘 (Bennett Greenspan) 在年轻时就对家谱学产生了浓厚的兴趣。对他的家族史来说更重要的是他从这些年长的亲戚那里获得的信息。家族史中最重要的是年长近亲的家族史。他们的 DNA 可以被采集和存储，但如果不像我父亲那样记录下来，他们的历史可能会丢失。

Guy Hewitt: Barbados remembers Scots heritage on St Andrew’s Day (scotsman.com)

Guy Hewitt – Wikipedia

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/elliott/links

and https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Elliot

For the Elliot and my father Loren Spencer Elliott: instead of;
https://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dtog/elliot2.html could you please use;
https://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dtog/elliot.html

Thank you

Mark Stephen Elliott

1/26/2024

Lidalia vel Lidisdalia regio, Lidisdail / Auct. Timotheo Pont. – Blaeu Atlas of Scotland, 1654 (nls.uk)

Scottish Poetry Selection – Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me?

Chasing-my-Y-DNA-part-28

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 11:59am

2 Comments

William Katz

1 hour ago

Mark, are you aware that J-M172 formed about 28,000 years ago in the region now known as Iran? And that the common ancestor of anyone who is M172 and anyone who is in Haplogroups I or R is many thousands of years before that? I ask because many of your comparisons and comments don’t really apply given those facts. To get useful insights into the ancestry of the Montgomerys to each other or to any other group of matches you must focus on the far downstream branches. Talking about M172 people going here or going there is meaningless because at that level they are everywhere. Also, given the likely Middle Eastern origin for the branch leading to some of these clans, one must also be open-minded about the possibility of a “non-paternity event”…potentially very far back in the lineage.

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William Katz

1 hour ago

By the way, as a Jew myself I can assure you that our plan to take over the world does not include extermination of Anglo-Borderers…it would be so much more useful to just enslave them. (If you are in doubt, this is sarcasm!)

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Mark Elliott

2 hours ago

Noted your Carson is in the Clan Scott Branch. The suffix ‘-son’, is indicative of the Danish ‘-sen’, and the Swedish ‘-sson’, which seems to have branching from southern Denmark, though Germany (Polish-Ukranian), As Saxons-Germanic-Danish-Anglo to Anglia (-son), Norwary (-sen), and Sweden (-sson). Anglia seem to drop southwest towards Cornwall some Danish place names in that direction near Yeovil, UK, but faded away with other groups in region, traveling to West Yorkshire, Danish Northumbria, now County Lancashire, England across to Ireland or north to now the border Debatable lands, then onto Ulster with a lot of J-M172 Y-DNA, onto America. Because of the exile and extermination of Anglo-Borderers, a Cromwellian Harvard Puritan historical genocide of this population which Jewish society refers to as gentiles is being done. By a silencing of free speech which is needed to get the family history correct. We’r Fur Hame; like ever one else; We are For Home. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Scots-Irish-Americans-come-home-to-Ulster.-1.mp4

Mark Elliott

40 minutes ago

When in family history FTDNA allows admins to exterminate free family speech, and FTDNA is making corporate profits made on money from the product I have purchased from them the borderer free speech is of the US, from a people I am from, but genocide by those who fly the Union-Jack, especially Armstrong and Elliott. James VI of Scotland when he became James I of England exterminated or exiled us to Ireland, many in America today. The history of the Montgomery and Scott and other border J-M172 is not being allowed to travel from the Scottish Borders to Ulster then onto America, by the Cromwellian, school of Harvard idealism, of silencing as in witch hanging to get at the truth. My Y-DNA was their when it happened defining Elizabeth Proctor her husband John hung as a witch. If Hitler won WWII you would be in the same place doing what I am doing with those which would be flying the flag of the Swastika, instead of the Union-Jack. You, happen to be in the nation which Cromwell transported my Y-DNA as slaves to be indentured to Harvard Cromwellian Puritans, where Cotton Mather want Wm Penn boat sent as slaves to Barbados. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Cotton-Mather-Wm-Penn-2.jpg Pennsylvanian, believes in religious freedoms, and freedom of speech as does the indigenous population of American does. In genealogy-family history there are two chosen tribes, the one of the Katz from Israel, and the one of the Mormons from the US. Ancestry.com, is owned by Mormons, which believe in offering their religion to ancestor which are deceased. FamilytreeDNA.com, is of a tribe which has genealogical history of the Biblical Old Testament. Where of the Middle March Armstrong, Elliott, Nixon, and Crozier family, top families for extermination when the Kingdoms became United, exiled to Ireland then onto America, many Armstrong became Quakers. One a Mormon; https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Albert-Bird-Armstrong-genealogists.png There are activity feeds which have a co-admin, no admin which can not exterminate free speech needed to get correct genealogy, and accurate family history done, and they are doing better in the area of people finding families than those being controlled by admins. As long as admins can control free speech then FTDNA is being operated for the purpose of corporate profit making, and not family history finding. The free speech which was established by the US American Constitution in Pennsylvania, does not apply to FTDNA. It is felt because of the imbalance of knowledge being put forth by feeds I have been excluded from I had to circumvent FTDNA. Brigham, means in Scottish, Brig; bridge, ham; home, in East Riding Yorkshire is a Brigham, England, where, my DNA is found around the time of surname adoption. Brigham Young is a border reiver name. Being a Quaker lead by that of god in all sorts of people. Just web search “Brigham DNA”, and you will see my graphics and web pages are on top. Most people force their own beliefs and run from the search they are not genealogists at all an can be extremely destructive in admin positions to the search of family history.

Mark Elliott

59 minutes ago

Chris Rottensteiner, Urgroßvater Stephen Barna, Sohn Stephen Peter Barna, mein Name Mark Stephen Elliott war ein galizischer Österreicher.

Mark Elliott

2 hours ago

Bien que je sois d’origine méthodiste épiscopale anglicane hamiltonienne, je suis maintenant Quaker. Raise Quaker, le président Herbert Hoover était un ingénieur des mines, comme j’ai également travaillé comme. Les services d’urgence ont-ils nourri les gens en Europe après que la Première Guerre mondiale et la Seconde Guerre mondiale sont devenues présidentes, son vice-président était amérindien, nous sommes tous deux nés et élevés dans l’Iowa, aux États-Unis. L’ADN-Y était présent dans les colonies de la Nouvelle-Angleterre au moment de l’événement. La gamme Harden de la famille Scott fait partie de mon histoire familiale. Remarque; Là où Herbert Hoover est allé à l’Université de Stanford, en Californie, mon diplôme est de l’Université de l’Utah à Salt Lake City, Utah, où se trouve la bibliothèque d’histoire familiale. For ‘M. Charles Kirkpatrick Sharpe’ above; http://clancrozier.com/jonas-humphrey-1587wendovereng-snp-dna-e-m35-kirkpatrickcalhoun-colquhoun/

Mark Elliott

4 hours ago

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما If I did my survey of where the base meridian, you would not questioned my answer to the nearest hundredth of a foot. If I triangulate off the angel on the top of the temple in Salt Lake City, Utah, and put my answer to the nearest hundredth of a foot you would question the math I have used. For FTDNA to use thirty years a generations, and getting the answer to the nearest hundredth of a percent that is the type of math they use. In the middle of the next block across the street West Temple, is the largest collection of genealogical worldwide in house documentation in the world Family History Library FHL, adding their extended online search https://www.familysearch.org, even larger. https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Arabic_Genealogical_Word_List in the world. FTDNA does not use proper math. Those Mormons were in Salt Lake City, Utah in 1847, about a decade before the US Cavalry brought camels into the southwest US. As you can see some people from the southwest US can use all the help they can get from those Arabs and Turks. Alcoholism among the Navajos has destroyed their families, and that is what the Navajos like of the Muslims and Mormons, they for the most part do not drink. Tactic and technique for FTDNA Family History, is a symbolic Harvard Cromwellian Puritan style of witch hanging to silence people who have purchased their product to search for family. Not free speech which is utilized in the Family History Library, but a silencing of family historic speech by dismissal from their activity feeds, if an admin, not a genealogist, because a genealogist knows they need all the help they can get, but someone in the manner of Hitler which want to exterminate words they do not want to hear.

Admin Archive J2

Admin

January 6, 2019 @ 5:57am

Please be patient when you encounter unfinished and outdated areas or do not receive an answer by volunteering and unpaid Admins and Members here. Statement of Chis Rottensteiner regarding grouping (late 2019): “Regrouping of kits is currently not possible: familytreedna is not allowing to manage (large) projects because their servers are slow and/or do not have optimized script-code and GAP management tools. It is impossible to care appropriately for such a large project if 90% of the time Error 500 Server problems do not allow anything and in the 10% when it works it takes minutes for every single kit. Impossible at least for me here in Europe since I have not much free time to volunteer even if I would like to continue to at least group new members to a meaningful group. Also Flor Veseli has similar issues here. Frustrating. The only reasonable solution seem sub-haplogroup projects with less then 1000 members which seem manageable by the experience of Flor and myself. Being Member of J2 is still useful for the kit (Y12 matching, finding distant matches, basic support) and us Admins (comparison/research, statistics) as sort of a gateway project.” Frequently Asked Questions: http://j2-m172.info/info/faq/ see also About & FAQ Y-DNA & haplogroup projects: www.isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_project_help All kits for your benefit and to allow and assist Project research after Login on Project Preferences (www.familytreedna.com/my/project-preferences) do: – Group Project Profile: Opt in to Sharing DNA results and ancestor information in the public results pages (Most important setting!). – give at least “Limited” Group Administrator Access or if you want full support in the Analysis give “Advanced” Access. – Make “Limited” the standard Access for future Admins. Kits with Y37 or better results should invite interesting matches with better results (SNP or BigY testing). Haplogroup and origin questions: search https://j2-m172.info or ask in www.facebook.com/groups/j2.m172/ NextGenSequence (BigY etc.): www.YFull.com analysis suggested Appropriate SNP Pack: order M67 & L24 SNP Pack if in DNA Results > Classic Chart your kit is grouped under one of this two SNPs. Otherwise order J2-M172 SNP Pack. You can do so by selecting the correct SNP Pack under www.familytreedna.com/my/upgrades Individual kit Y-DNA testing strategies and suggestions (Y-STR marker upgrade, SNP Packs): see Classic Chart description for your group, ask here (click “Ask a Question”) Unknown Y-DNA ancestry and no Y-matches: use FamilyFinder and join/ask www.familytreedna.com/groups/gagp/ Individual genealogical Y-DNA research: if available ask surname or geographic projects of interest. Admins here are volunteers and cannot carry out research on relations in individual family lineages (genealogical time / surnames, private haplogroups, adoptees) in this large project. Focus strictly on J2 haplogroups, avoid any cultural, political and religious debate disrespecting opinions of others (no ad personam attacks!) and avoid postings which could be called biased. Avoid insisting on personal hypotheses especially if you do no public research on J2 haplogroups. Posts can be deleted and members banned as the Admins have spare time and motivation to care and moderate ongoing polemics and disinformation. The J2 Activity Feed is for member questions, support and announcements. Please avoid long discussions without talking about Y-DNA evidence, you can find many places to do so, for example the J2 Facebook group. Please do not comment on this pinned post (will be removed), instead use “Ask a Question”, “Post to Group”,… at the top of this page.

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Chris Rottensteiner

April 4 @ 8:37am

Status update April 2020: While FTDNA has updated the GAP Member Subgrouping tool for Admins, there seem to be many bugs (group renaming with special characters gives error). Most likely I myself even with the tool working smoothly will not have the time to move the ungrouped kits and update the old groups, because basically almost all of the over 5000 members would need upgraded groups. So the suggestion remains to focus on sub-haplogroup projects while remaining here as member for GD 1/12 matches, distant Y37/67/111 matches and possible other benefits.

Mark Elliott

24 hours ago

The J-M172 Montgomery travels to Hadrians Wall by way of France. The J-M172 Scott travels through Germany by the way of a Saxon wildlife name in Polish ‘wolf’. The Scott surname at time of travel would not be attached to the J-M172, but would like be adopted at some later time. Though the Wilk name at least in a phonetic, wildlife word sense did travel, with the characters ‘Wilk’ of Poland, place upon it. In German and English ‘Wolf’, is a fairly common surname. Today there a wolfs migrating basically along their name sake surname paths. Among the surnames of the Scott J-M172 the name Wilkerson is found. https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/German-wolves.gif https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Wolf,1890:Wolff https://forebears.io/surnames/wolf

Mark Elliott

April 16 @ 1:23pm

Among the J2-M172 there a people migrating to Ulster, Ireland from the Scottish Borders; Some I found already are Graham, Scott, and Montgomery. Examples, https://gorrenberry.com/graham-grantham-ancient-roman-j-m267-dna/ Graham Grantham “Ancient Roman” J-M267 DNA – Gorrenberry The J-M267 Ancient Roman Graham, came from the Roman town of Graham, now … is listed with witnesses on sasine/deed of Robert Elwald (ie Elliot) of Redheugh. … The J-M172 indicates Ancient Roman, Y-DNA brought north with logicality … https://elwald.com/scott-ftdna/ Scott FTDNA – Elwaldelwald.com › scott-ftdna Mine with the Anglo-Saxon variant of Elwald, given the meaning of ‘elk … It seems that the Scott and Montgomery have high concentrations of J-M172, if it is … Almost think they need their own group, like a J2-M172 outpost group. Graham Grantham “Ancient Roman” J-M267 DNA – Gorrenberrygorrenberry.com › graham-grantham-ancient-roman-j-m267-dna The J-M267 Ancient Roman Graham, came from the Roman town of Graham, now … is listed with witnesses on sasine/deed of Robert Elwald (ie Elliot) of Redheugh. … The J-M172 indicates Ancient Roman, Y-DNA brought north with logicality … Scott FTDNA – Elwaldelwald.com › scott-ftdna Mine with the Anglo-Saxon variant of Elwald, given the meaning of ‘elk … It seems that the Scott and Montgomery have high concentrations of J-M172, if it is … Noted that the name ‘Glen Foster’ is likely a Scottish Border name also. If these names of what I feel are Ancient Roman to the UK can be isolated with-in their own group, they among themselves may be able to figure their family heritage out.

20 Comments

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

April 21 @ 1:46am

اذا احببت ان اتحدث باللغة العربية فلا بأس بذلك، وفيما يتعلق بمسمى ديفيد فهو غير موجود عندنا في دولنا العربية لأننا نطلق اسم (داود) على ما تسمونه (ديفيد) باللغة الانجليزية

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

April 21 @ 1:50am

(Dawood) instead of (David)

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 5:19pm

https://forebears.io/surnames/dawood https://forebears.io/surnames/david Could use more to compared. هل داود هو الإملاء لما تسمونه داود أو داود؟

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

Yesterday at 12:01pm

نعم داود هو الإملاء الصحيح

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 9:47am

Click right to open larger image in new tab. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ScottDNAproject?iframe=ycolorized https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ballads-of-the-Border-Reivers..mp4?_=1 There was this Scott, Auld Wat (Old Walt), of Harden which got Wm Ellot the Goodman of Gorrenberry, in 1596 involved in this rescue of Kinmont Willie from Carlisle Castle. This Auld Wat must of had J-M172 in his DNA. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/HISTORY-HUNTERS-Kinmont-Willie-Armstrong.mp4?_=2

Glen Foster

Yesterday at 11:03am

http://walterscott.eu/education/ballads/reiver-ballads/

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 11:29am

From link; “Border Names in the Border Ballads The main families names in the ballads we have included here are:Simon Armstrong, Laird of Mangerton, and Sir Simon Musgrave (Captain of Bewcastle), and Sir John Forster (Warden of the English Middle March)” The 1590 map had a Sim Ellott on it. Sim/Simon a common first and forename in the Borders. Noted; A Sir John Forster in the list also.

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 1:20am

Click right to open larger image in new tab. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Montgomery?iframe=ycolorized

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 8:40pm

Been excluded from FTDNA Border Reiver though descendant of a noted border reiver Clementis Hobs. Have over a half century of research. Censorship does not produce family history, and have learn that the corporation is owned by Jews for the purpose of profit making not one of free speech in which families can be found.

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 6:33pm

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heathcote,+UK/@52.2657686,-1.5551678,15z/ https://forebears.io/surnames/heathcote https://named.publicprofiler.org/ Adrian Heathcote, Your nations flag flies the Union-Jack a symbol of Reiver exile and genocide. Your name is predominately English, the nation of Armstrong-Elliott border extermination, exiled to county Fermanagh, married the Irish, though the fight is between the Presbyterian Mc- and Mac- the news says Protestants, which is inclusive of us Hamiltonian Royalists which fought on the side of the Irish, against you dictatorial oriented Cromwellian Puritan Parliamentarian Government. Family exiled at time of Scottish-English Border genocide to Co Fermanagh, Ireland, ones left behind at Gorrenberry, Scotland, exterminated, then transported as your the English Parliament of the Union-Jack on your nation flag said to. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/SELLING-SCOTS-AS-SLAVES-IS-FUNNY-TO-THE-TORIES-2.mp4?_=1 Come from a belief of free speech and religion. Which even has a school on the West Bank before Israel existed. If you do not allow my stay, all FTDNA is a profit making site not intended for finding family. Been let go from Germany from communication to Ahmed Alhaddad likely in Arabic. Corporation FTDNA is owned by Jews, ancestry by Mormons, genealogy is a shared experience with all those which want to input, and being grateful for any outside help. Think you a Heathcote, which has Saxon lineage like mine would be interested in the research I am doing. One time I stood up against one of Redflex of Melbourne, Australia’s photo radar machinces. https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Photo-Radar-SP-2011000660.jpg There is no longer by law photo radar machines in Star Valley, AZ.

Mark Elliott

April 20 @ 10:24pm

https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Armstrong-Elliott-Johnston-Fermanagh-surname-distribution-map.jpg

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Jan Van Kort

April 21 @ 1:22am

Did anyone mention this before about the “reivers”? To rob, plunder, pillage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_reivers

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Mark Elliott

April 21 @ 1:09pm

Yes, I am descended from on of the most notorious ‘Thieves of Liddesdale’, Clementis Hobs ie Clement Crozier’s sister’s son Robert Elliott, and thank you for giving us a good name. https://inews.co.uk/light-relief/offbeat/1000-word-curse-caused-havoc-five-centuries-made-523270 Van Kort you can not hide your name behind the Dutch, you are still a ‘Little’, and many of your family carry an R-L193 like many Elliott, and Glendinning do from the valley of Meikledale, of the Glendinning, Scotland region; https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Old+Schoolhouse+-+Glendinning+Farm+Cottages/@55.2530267,-3.1060402,17z/ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Marker_for_the_Tower_of_Clan_Little.jpg/230px-Marker_for_the_Tower_of_Clan_Little.jpg https://www.google.com/maps/place/Meikledale+Lodge/@55.1579556,-3.0746435,10.23z/ Just because you carry that J-M172 you rode with us. Here is what a Nixon and an Armstrong did from the Scottish side Middle March like the Elliott and Crozier, https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/President-Nixon-speaking-with-astronauts-Armstrong-and-Aldrin-on-the-Moon.mp4 It almost ruined our good name.

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Glen Foster

Yesterday at 5:01pm

Well that curse explains a lot! LOL

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Mark Elliott

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Montgomery?iframe=ycolorized

Mark Elliott

Just now

Mark Elliott

2 hours ago

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heathcote,+UK/@52.2657686,-1.5551678,15z/ https://forebears.io/surnames/heathcote https://named.publicprofiler.org/ Adrian Heathcote, Your nations flag flies the Union-Jack a symbol of Reiver exile and genocide. Your name is predominately English, the nation of Armstrong-Elliott border extermination, exiled to county Fermanagh, married the Irish, though the fight is between the Presbyterian Mc- and Mac- the news says Protestants, which is inclusive of us Hamiltonian Royalists which fought on the side of the Irish, against you dictatorial oriented Cromwellian Puritan Parliamentarian Government. Family exiled a time of Scottish-English Border genocide to Co Fermanagh, Ireland, then transported as your the English Parliament of the Union-Jack on your nation flag said to. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/SELLING-SCOTS-AS-SLAVES-IS-FUNNY-TO-THE-TORIES-2.mp4?_=1 Come from a belief of free speech and religion. Which even has a school on the West Bank before Israel existed. If you do not allow my stay, all FTDNA is a profit making site not intended finding family. Been let go from Germany from communication to Ahmed Alhaddad likely in Arabic. Corporation FTDNA is owned by Jews, ancestry by Mormons, genealogy is a shared experience with all those which want to input, and being grateful fore any outside help. Think you a Heathcote, which has Saxon lineage like mine would be interested in the research I am doing. One time I stood up against one of Redflex of Melbourne, Australia’s photo radar machinces. https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Photo-Radar-SP-2011000660.jpg There is no longer by law photo radar machines in Star Valley, AZ.

Mark Elliott

April 16 @ 1:23pm

Glen Foster

April 16 @ 3:44pm

Mark Elliot – Can you provide any more detail on what you have relating to ‘Glen Foster’? Thanks so much! 🙂

Glen Foster

April 16 @ 4:24pm

Will these names (and other pertinent names) be isolated in a new group? ‘Scottish Border Group’ ?

Mark Elliott

April 16 @ 5:16pm

Foster-Forster-Forester, border name specific. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Foster-c1630-Ulster-muster-UK-distribution.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Muster-Roll-for-Tullyhogue-1610-Forster-Foster-1024×633.png https://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Liddesdale-1590-2.png https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Foster-and-Graham.jpg Above for a Foster Anglo-English-Ulster border locality example. ‘Hadrian’s Wall J-DNA’ group may be a better description. Figure the J-DNA is left over Roman in the UK, which adopted surnames there. Surname adoption in relation with Roman sites may help determine locality origins of some of the J-surnames, along with where others of similar names came from. Feel for instance the Graham J-267 could be from Grantham, with a nearby Roman site. Others with same surname but without the J-Ancient Roman DNA may help to indicate so. A comparison to other border surname carrying the J-DNA may indicate relation groups. Like on a far isolated reaching branch of the J-DNA which not all would be on. Other branches could also break of in smaller groups, leaving the trunk as a group also. Though all would be welcome it is felt that people will gravitate to those regions which they could most help or find more of a collective information on their own particular family. These groups start off which and information exchangeable size an sometimes get a bit bulky in nature. Though it makes for family groupings. J-DNA has various language groupings, interesting, but the family grouping needs to be within language groupings. One has to be prejudice to one’s own family to find family. Note also families fight. Though you may be prejudice to one’s own family in sharing genealogy, differences show and that is needed for proper genealogy. When family grouping share family information within there respective group that is when family history is learned.

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Glen Foster

April 16 @ 6:38pm

Thanks so much Mark! 🙂

Mark Elliott

April 16 @ 7:05pm

Think it would be good for the J-DNA Reivers, to isolate into a separate group. Good for all parties involved. Though I am a rare Reiver R-U106, and some already feel I created some difficulties, can not help what I came up with for Y-DNA or what my ancestors were. Came for a visit.

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Jeffrey Simpson

April 17 @ 7:38am

I’d be interested in a Hadrian’s Wall J-DNA group. I believe it where my line originated but as yet unproven

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Mark Elliott

April 17 @ 9:47am

Have preference for it to be a Hadrian’s Wall J-DNA group, takes it away from the Reivers and puts it where it should be in the hands of the Ancient Romans. and to the west it is almost in contact with the English-Scottish Border, and this it the region the people mainly migrated to the Ulster Plantation from. https://cdn.britannica.com/95/19695-004-3FEBCE5D/Hadrians-Wall-UNESCO-World-Heritage-site-1987.jpg This group can carry the J-DNA so far, but adding people with J-DNA along the way, no telling how far it may go. May be the Brave Heart, the heart of Robert the Bruce, may finally make it to the promise land. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/The-Heart-of-Robert-the-Bruce.mp4 Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان 8 hours ago You wrote in Arabic 😁 “i wish Ahmed Al Haddad will help”. Figure after knowing your name there are many Ahmed Al Haddad, with additives, was thinking of another but think you will work out better. Need to have someone a lot younger then I which can kind of follow the trail through, with the respective J-DNA, from Melrose Abbey, Scotland into the Promise Land; “Robert had requested that his heart be taken on a tour of the Holy Land and presented before God at Jerusalem’s Church of the Holy Sepulchre before ultimately being buried at Melrose Abbey in Roxburghshire.” https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/robert-the-bruces-heart. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Church+of+the+Holy+Sepulchre/@31.7774204,35.2272465,15z

Glen Foster

April 18 @ 11:12am

Jeffrey Simpson – I have a Simpson in the Foster Group 6 that I am probably related to – George Simpson 1784-1861 Connacht Z467+.

Mark Elliott

April 18 @ 12:34pm

Simpson is from Simon’s son; https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Simon,1890:Simonson,1890:Simonsen,1890:Simons Name out of Germany to the Borderlands then time of Border Pacification James VI of Scotland becoming also James I, of England many expelled under the treat of extermination to Connacht, Ireland, my many great was exiled/banish from both kingdoms; https://www.historyireland.com/early-modern-history-1500-1700/sheep-stealers-from-the-north-of-england-the-riding-clans-in-ulster-by-robert-bell/ Co. Roscommon, Ireland is within Connacht, where these people were in the process of Pacifying the Scots-English border. Foster lived on the border.

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

April 19 @ 1:11am

Dear Mr.Mark, i wish that i can help but i am not expert in DNA, i just tested for myself Y-37 than i upgraded it to Big Y, and i got a result of J2b2 with no matches at all !!! , and i tested Family finder and i got many relatives up to six generations. but i didnt study this science to help you in understanding the geneome because i am a civil Engineer 🙂

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Jeffrey Simpson

April 19 @ 8:21am

Glen Foster – George Simpson 1784-1861 Connacht Z467+ is my 3rd Great Grandfather. Most of my matches are Foster’s but I don’t have any idea as to why. Mark Elliot – I’m not sure about your statement that the name is from Germany, the YDna would indicate a fertile crescent origin? There is also a family story about having to leave the Borders for stealing sheep.

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Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 8:25am

Will work out great. Dad, was and agricultural engineer from Iowa, worked as a watershed planning civil engineer, for awhile I worked as a mining engineer, until mining did not do so well. Family history the knowledge comes from the family. The civilian engineers broke away from the military engineers, and all the other engineering people broke away from them. Need the civilian – civil engineer which is left begin. We certainly have this project which needs to be engineered ahead of us, and the math to learn more genetics.

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Jeffrey Simpson

April 19 @ 8:33am

Mark Elliot – A great uncle Adam, son of George Simpson 1784-1861 Connacht Z467+ left Wellington, Ontario, Canada and settled on land in Hamilton County, Iowa, USA circa 1873

Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 11:00am

Everybody has been hitting the numbers especially Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زم who happens to be an engineer. First of all Jeffrey Simpson carrying J-M172, if you had known about Hadrian’s Wall previous to Y-DNA testing, then what more proof are you going to get that your family is of Hadrian’s Wall. For me there is no question because very few people in region hold the J-M172, that the answer has been found. Grew up basically from 2-9 years, two counties to west of Hamilton County, and family fought on the side of the Anglican Hamilton against Cromwell (1650 AD), ended up in the Puritan Colony of Massachusetts. Robert Bell is from Ulster Ireland, https://historyireland.com/early-modern-history-1500-1700/sheep-stealers-from-the-north-of-england-the-riding-clans-in-ulster-by-robert-bell/ Wellington, down shore from Hamilton, on Lake Ontario. Pairing Hadrian’s Wall, with J-M172 is a plus because the Romans left archaeology behind from a long time back. Glen Foster is doing what everyone in this J-M172 group should be doing, is going to their matches and see which people they match. This works for all people all over the world. Now is the time to get oriented to who you are. Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد ز he says 37 markers is enough an he is certainly correct, can not argue with an engineer. “With a combination of diligence, intuition, peer guidance, genealogical awareness and luck rather than a sophisticated knowledge of biology or mathematics I show that 37 STR markers are often quite sufficient to identify genetic families/surname branches, and one or two SNP Panel tests can be a very cost-effective follow-up to take many testees to near the forefront of this exciting application of citizen science. ” James M. Irvine https://ggi2013.blogspot.com/2017/10/james-irvine-speaker-profile.html James M. Irvine; AGREE https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3526363?dpr=2&fit=max&h=673&w=590 Many of the Co-Admins are along the pathway, with maybe the exception of that “Sanders”, we have to excuse him, he is an Amer., you know. Because people travel in groups, like today made up of various SNP, a small group at the end of it’s branch may have a lot in common.

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Glen Foster

April 19 @ 2:02pm

Jeffrey Simpson – Do you have Ancestry.com. I have found records for your family

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 11:03pm

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد ز We need to get a list of names which are pronounce the same in Arabic as they are in English such as; David ديفيد Then when we try to migrate them from the Middle East to England, the main nations which carry the J-M172 can pitch-in and help us out. There are other nations which use the name pronounced ‘David’ between the Middle East and England, but are like the Arabic shows spelled their own way. Like in Greek, David is Δαβίδ.

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

Yesterday at 11:24pm

Dear Mark, i did not said that 37 markers is enough, i said that i tested 37 markers and i didnt find any matches. then i upgraded to big Y and still there is no matches, thats why i did not get alot of benefits out of that, but, for others they may get some matches within 37 markers, then after upgrading to big Y, more matches may appear which will help them in tracing back there ancestry, but in my case i can not help too match, the reason is that how can a man with no matches help in Y-DNA research?! it is sad 🙁 actually, but i have to be paitent and i have to wait for new DNA testers to get my first Y-DNA match, beacuse the “picture” is not clear for me about Y-DNA ancestry, the only thing that i knew from what i heard from the eldrly people in my family that our origins are from southwest of Iran ( a place called Emad deh ) and now we are living in the Kingdom of Bahrain for approx.100 years and this happened because my grand father and his family he migrated from southwest of Iran to Bahrain using ships when he was a teenager, but Bahrain is an “Arab” country, but we came originally from a “Persian” Country which is Iran, so this may make me as not a pure blood arabian because that i have “Persian” roots, and i want to clear something to western people that “Arab” and “Persian” are not the same, they are from different origins and Different culture. and by the way i just ordered today MtDNA test beause i want to know more about the ancestry from my mother side. 🙂

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 12:15am

صديق في عام 1968 ، من تبريز ، أذربيجان ، سعيد بارجلام ، يتحدث التركية والفارسية ، يمكن لأخيه أن يتحدث خمس لغات عربية من فهمي. الآن أعيش في نيو مكسيكو ، الولايات المتحدة الأمريكية ، ويتم بث نافاجو على الراديو. أنا لا أعرف أين صديقي. انضممنا إلى جامعة وايومنغ ويوتا. نافاجوس يفعل الكثير في الفيروز ، مما يعني الحجر التركي / الفارسي. جميع البلدان متنوعة في ثقافاتها ولغتها ، بما في ذلك إيران. نعم ، إنها جزء عربي منه ، ورأوا أنه من الجيد مع الفرس أن العرب الإيرانيين يجب أن يقاتلوا ضد عرب العراق.

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Ahmed Alhaddad

Yesterday at 6:27pm

مرحبًا …هل يمكنني التواصل مع صديقك هذا ( الذي اصله من تبريز /ايران) لوجود احد اقاربائي هناك اود سؤاله اصوله ومكانه هناك وأرجو تواصله معي على الإيميل ( ahmed2531973@yahoo.com) أو على الرقم ( 009647801250295)

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 7:31pm

Ahmed Alhaddad Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان لقد تكلم الإنجليزية ، كان يجب أن يبقيها على اللغة العربية

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

19 hours ago

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

19 hours ago

(Dawood) instead of (David)

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Mark Elliott

3 hours ago

https://forebears.io/surnames/dawood https://forebears.io/surnames/david Could use more to compared. هل داود هو الإملاء لما تسمونه داود أو داود؟

Mark Elliott

April 16 @ 1:23pm

19 Comments

Mark Elliott

22 hours ago

Ahmed Alhaddad Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان لقد تكلم الإنجليزية ، كان يجب أن يبقيها على اللغة العربية

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

16 hours ago

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

16 hours ago

(Dawood) instead of (David)

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Mark Elliott

31 minutes ago

https://forebears.io/surnames/dawood https://forebears.io/surnames/david Could use more to compared. هل داود هو الإملاء لما تسمونه داود أو داود؟

Mark Elliott

19 hours ago

https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Armstrong-Elliott-Johnston-Fermanagh-surname-distribution-map.jpg

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Jan Van Kort

16 hours ago

Did anyone mention this before about the “reivers”? To rob, plunder, pillage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_reivers

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Mark Elliott

5 hours ago

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Glen Foster

49 minutes ago

Well that curse explains a lot! LOL

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Mark Elliott

5 hours ago

Jérôme Gasnier https://forebears.io/surnames/gomer https://www.google.com/maps/place/14880+Colleville-Montgomery,+France/@48.0493441,-3.3312294,6.23z/ Gomer Surname Definition: (Hebrew) Perfect [Hebrew Gómer, from gámar, to perform] The sons of Japheth: Gomer . . .Gen. x. 2. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Montgomery,+UK/@52.5534015,-3.2062054,12.83z/ https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Montgomerie_%281er_comte_d%27Eglinton%29 https://www.utahstandardnews.com/24-december-scots-book-of-days-hugh-montgomery-earl-of-eglinton-receives-remission-christmas-eve-1540-descendant-of-the-bruce-and-ancestor-great-grandfather-of-donald-trump-junior/ Hugh Montgomerie (1er comte d’Eglinton) : Haplogroupe J2a1-L26 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_haplogroupes_des_personnes_historiquement_connues

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 5:04pm

Want to show you Jan Van Kort and Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زم what us Elliott may look like in tartan and kilt.

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

16 hours ago

what is tartan and kilt?

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Mark Elliott

7 hours ago

A tartan is a plaid square design in the fabric, which is worn on a skirt called a kilt, introduced by Gaelic speaking Scots, like the presidents mother, known also genetically to have red hair. Clans-families have there own tartan, the blue one being worn is of the Elliott clan. At first the word Scots meant those on the main island now Scotland which spoke the Gaelic, were called Scot. Those which left the region of where the Scot was spoken like to France, may acquired the name Scot(t), because they were from the region of the Scot and did not upon leaving have a surname. This concept may also work in the Arabic language. Begin to note that Arabic utilizes a lot of place naming in the names. A lot of Anglo-English names end in -ton, -town, -ham, and so on came from places. This helps quite a bit in the family history, especially along with matching DNA. Example of Clan Elliot tartan-plaid ترتان https://www.scotclans.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/elliot_mod_big.jpg

Adrian Heathcote

15 hours ago

Mark Elliott — you are haplogroup R and I am not sure why you are posting over and over again in this group. Would you mind taking yourself OUT of the group and posting your surname theories somewhere else. Your idea — to the extent that I can make any sense at all of it — is that there was some emigration of J2 from Arabia to the Borders of Scotland. This is so ridiculous it doesn’t deserve discussion — but if you disagree then it would still be best if you propagated your theories somewhere else and to a different audience. ADMIN.

Glen Foster

10 hours ago

Mark Elliot could be wrong in some of his ideas, but he is trying to help others.

Mark Elliott

8 hours ago

Glen, Of the Scottish Middle March Families of granddad exiled from both kingdoms in 1607. Gorrenberry Tower was torn down and family exterminate. DNA shows genocide. An American and do not claim any kingdoms of the United Kingdom, it’s flag the Union-Jack is that of reiver history genocide. There is a whole history of use reivers, including Walter Scott. Both Walter Scot and James VI of Scotland a protestant were of the Scottish dialect but wrote in English. When James VI of Scotland became James I of England he had the King James version of the bible written in English not Scots. Then he went about his policy of exile and extermination of reivers. That’s why you find them today both sides of the Brexit-EU in County Fermanagh, we married the Irish, on the Scottish Borders Middle March family; Armstrong, Elliott, Nixon and Crozier, on the EU/Brexit border top five are considered family; Maguire, Johnston, Armstrong, McManus, and Elliott. Maguire is a form of McGuire which is on your list. Need to give example; with Maguire and McGuire. Both Maguire and McGuire are similar sounding names. Using localities in today’s UK, the name-DNA branched on part to Ireland where the name adopted the Gaelic spelling of Mag-Uidhir (pres mom Scots-Gaelic), then Anglicize to Maguire, in the locality of County Mag-Uidhir then Maguire then Fermanagh. The other north to where the Foster are on the Scottish Border became the name MacGuire, then when it migrated to Co Fermanagh, Ulster Ireland it became the name McGuire, and found on your list with your Foster J-M172 Y-DNA. The rewrite of the history which does not match the Y-DNA and that makes me totally incorrect. With genealogy-family history one does not get anywhere unless they do it reiver style by pitching in like Peter Kifle has done. Most people when they pitch in will look totally incorrect. This is how one gets it correct; THE FAMILY KNOWS BEST. Not a rule but if you do not follow it one can not get the overall family history correct. Inconsistencies seem to work themselves out. Can not do the genealogy, without especially in this group people pitching in, but that goes for everyone and no one should be singled out especially the administrators, which will pitch in as see fit when the time comes. Now we are at the root and leaves we have a lot in between to deal with. This group is in the language of English, and our lines have evolved in the language longer than others, so will have to give examples that are really quite foreign to those which a lot more recently came into this language.

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Mark Elliott

8 hours ago

Did find; Gebru Kifle (~1800-18??) in Middle East project but an E-M35. It should be noted that projects map does include the Eritrea East Africa region.

Peter Kifle

Yesterday at 8:12am

Hi Every one. My name is Petros kifle from eritrea east Africa. My Haplogroup is J-M172. I don’t know even what does mean. can some one explain me the only thing that i have understand about this is my Paternal lineage is J-M 172.

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

16 hours ago

Google it, you find a lot of information about this Haplogroup 🙂

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Adrian Heathcote

15 hours ago

Peter — start here: https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

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Mark Elliott

9 hours ago

This Peter Kifle may be at the root of the tree, with the reivers out with the twigs and leaves.

Glen Foster

Yesterday at 11:56am

May be a dumb question, but who were the J-M172s who came into England? I assume the ancient tribes of Britain and Scotland were not J-M172s. Did the J-M172s come from the Romans, the Saxons, the Normans or and Angles? Or a combination of these, or or some other group entirely. From what I have read on this page, it seems that some Romans may have been involved. I know they originated in the Arab world thousands of years before. Also, is J-M172 rare?

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Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

16 hours ago

it is not rare here in the middle east, J-M172 is very common here

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Adrian Heathcote

15 hours ago

Romans were involved, but they did not ”originate in the Arab world thousands of years before.” Romans, Normans and sundry emigrants from France, the Low Countries and Germany are likely contributors to the J2 in Britain.

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 12:34pm

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما You’ll be surprise what us reivers can do, especially since we have some of that J-M172 Y-DNA which came from the land of the Arabs, all we have to figure out is how it got to Hadrian’s Wall.

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Jan Van Kort

Yesterday at 1:49pm

Reivers? Something out of a sci-fi movie? I was born a Little, autosomal dna traces me to a James Little and Jane Herron in Pennsylvania 1784, fresh immigrants from Ireland. Y-111 traces me to a Morgan Williams in the late 1400’s. Yet somehow I’ve got two Y ancestors in a gravesite in the Hebrides of about 100bc (might have to revisit that date) and another slightly earlier one in Sweden. So I just bought an upgrade to the y-111, the BIGY. There’s a story in there about how a Williams became a Little, I want to find it. Geography shows Hadrians wall is considerably to the south of the Hebrides and Sweden. The migrant map shows J-M172 came west long before there were countries with names we recognize today. (they came from the Caucasus area). Maybe long before names historians even know about, cities never written about, unknown countries, un-named kings. Ireland, Scotland, England has man-made construction as old as 15 thousand years, who built it? J-M172 seemed to move west with agriculture and tech, the oldest evidence of man in the UK is related to agriculture and roads. I think J-M172 came to the UK when man didn’t need a boat to cross the English channel. J-M172 also came with the Romans but I’m fairly certain it was already present.

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Mark Elliott

20 hours ago

List of Border Reiver Surnames A list of Border Reiver surnames from both sides of the border include: Anderson, Armstrong, Beattie, Bell, Blackadder, Bromfield, Burns, Carlisle, Carnaby, Carr, Carruthers, Charlton, Collingwood, Cranston, Craw, Croser, Crozier, Curwen,Dacre, Davison, Dixon, Dodd, Douglas, Dunn, Elliot, Fenwick, Forster, Gilchrist, Glendenning, Graham, Gray, Hall, Harden, Hedley, Henderson, Heron, Hetherington, Hodgson, Hume, Hunter, Irvine, Jamieson, Jardine, Johnstone, Kerr, Laidlaw, Latimer, Little, Lowther, Maxwell, Medford, Middlemass, Milburn, Mitford, Moffat, Musgrave, Nixon, Noble, Ogle, Oliver, Potts, Pringle, Radcliffe, Reed, Ridley, Robson, Routledge, Rowell, Rutherford, Salkeld, Scott, Selby, Shaftoe, Simpson, Stamper, Stapleton, Stokoe, Storey, Tailor, Tait, Thompson, Thomson, Trotter, Turnbull, Turner, Wake, Wilkinson, Wilson, Witherington, Yarrow, Young. https://englandsnortheast.co.uk/border-reivers/

James Sprunger has a question!

Yesterday at 4:50pm

“What is the next step to clarify ancestry if you have no Y-25 or Y-37 matches? Are there SNP tests that will help? ”

Mark Elliott

24 hours ago

Sprunger surname seems to be concentrate in the Berner Jura District, Switzerland https://forebears.io/surnames/sprunger May want to look at some of your 12 marker exact matches and see if the come from Switzerland, or check with Google Maps to see whether they are place names out of Switzerland. Note; 107132 Daniel Roll b. 1700 (Bern, Switzerland) and d. aft J-Y12610 28627 Peter Roll b.c.1763 Uetendorf, Bern, Switzerland J-M172 390034 Jean Vidal, b. 1695-1715 Saint-Flour, Auvergne J-SK1313 345028 Ulrich Tüller b. 1619 Bern, Switzerland J-M172 Do you match a Roll, Vidal, or a Tüller. Feel Berne, Switzerland is a good bet for where you are from. Also Sprunger may be spelled Sprünger.

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 4:39pm

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Little_Klein_Cline_Kline?iframe=ycolorized Jan Van Kort, (‘van kort’ from ‘Little’, which is from ‘Liddel’) The name Little comes from the Liddel Water which is the boundary between England and Scotland and goes in to Liddesdale, dale of the Liddel. Eric Liddell of Scotland 1924 Olympics of ‘Chariots of Fire’, movie would have obtained his name from this region also. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liddel+Water/@55.1649681,-2.9544687,10.81z/d Actually is a 29th Chief Margaret Eliott of Redheugh; https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Reiver-Trail-Magaret-Eliott-clan-chief.mp4 Jan Van Kort, given the dispersion of J-M172 markers among the Little, what you said makes a lot of sense. Since they were of the region, the obtain their surname in an era a lot of R-L193 Little obtained theirs. Likely in the 14th century John de Liddel then the ‘de’ was dropped it became John Liddel, through phonetic spelling the Liddel evolve into the name of ‘Little’ you find of the region today.

Glen Foster

December 18 @ 5:00pm

Good evening – My name is Glen Foster. My family line is Foster/Forster. The family migrated to Pennsylvania in the early 1700s from Northern Ireland and many subsequently moved on to Ohio and then to Iowa and then to other locations in the western US. The family in Ireland seem to be part of the Ulster Scots who originally came from Scotland or from northern England. I am not 100% sure that all of my Foster ancestors came to the US by that route, some may have come from other parts of England. Are there any Fosters in this group? I received my Y111 test result today. My haplogroup is J-M172. Not sure why mine seems short compared to others. Is there something else that needs to be done, or I need to do? Do I need to do special testing for SNPs or is this still being done by FamilyTreeDNA? I ran this on the SNP tracker and it only covers the Paleo era and does not go beyond that. I have seen other go all the way to the Roman or Present era. Thanks for your help! 🙂 Kit No. 919766

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1 Comment

Lawrence Stickell

March 25 @ 9:33am

Glen, do you have a tree on Ancestry? Autologous DNA?

Glen Foster

March 25 @ 11:46am

Lawrence – yes I have a tree on Ancestry – GRFoster242; Foster-Cottrell-Harris-Johnson tree,

Glen Foster

April 3 @ 7:52am

Lawrence Stickell – What is your Member Name on Ancestry? I will look you up as well. Thanks Glen

Glen Foster

Yesterday at 12:01pm

Lawrence Stickell – what is your ancestry member name and tree name?

Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 10:02am

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما You can purchase, mtDNA, but it is only good for exact matches as far as genealogy is concerned. Myself I had one, and no immediate family research with it. If you talk to others you match as you learn the genetics, they will not understand what you are saying. The Hunt(er) is my in-law. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/2216763?dpr=2&fit=max&h=319&w=590 related through the Crozier c1541, an the Foster/Forstar, witnessed a deed to land our Clan Elliot, 29th chief lives on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sasine_deed_1484_for_Robert_Elwald_(Elliot),_Redheugh,_Larriston,_Hartsgarth.jpg The people from the Arabic nations are quite supportive of DNA. The two companies, which incorporate one is strong in genealogy, and the other does not seem to know the first thing about it; THE FAMILY KNOWS BEST, and it is a shared experience among family. Both companies seem to be operated by those which think they may be the chosen people, but this group of J-M172 the Simpson, Foster, Hunt and so on, we are kind of not chosen people. Americans which lost their histories on the border of Scotland-England, and that of Ireland-Ulster, but a high proportion of American today. Old guys can get stuck biased on their own concepts in a short time. The Peoples of the British https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ Isles study by and international group of geneticists, taking auto-somal DNA from rural people of the British Isles, but it did not include surnames, and language other than English in the model. Though I know that the president likes to say he is American, his mother is Gaelic, of not the English language; https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38648877 likely a lot of Arabs and Iranians have a stronger American history then he. If a model for J-M172 can be made on how to incorporated various languages going from the Middle East to Hadrian’s Wall, it can be model from going from the Middle East to India or Russia for instance. Travel the language and the J-M172 will travel with it.

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Mark Elliott

Yesterday at 1:58am

click right to open image in new tab https://j2-m172.info/links/cultural-history/ Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما

Lloyd Hunt

April 19 @ 1:47pm

Ok I may have stumbled on a brilliant clue on my J-L70 Hunts. At first when I tested and found that our family tree had many unfortunate non J-L70 Hunts attached. So I backed off connecting all the ancient Hunts ascribed to our family – Sir Turgitus Hunt, But this is all a bit too convenient of course so at this site https://sites.google.com/site/fivegateways/alphabetical-index-h/hunt attributed to Armytage, G. J. (1870) The Visitation of the County of Rutland in the Year 1618-19, Taken by William Camden, Clarenceux King of Arms. London: Harleian Society. So we see below that the Hunt name actually comes in several generations later after de Stoke Now to our friend who earlier posted about the Wake family you will note they are there as well A1. Turgitus. B1. John, son of Turgitus. C1. William de Stoke. D1. Theobaldus de Stoke, Knight. E1. Gilbertus de Stoke, called The Forester, m. Mathilda, daughter and heiress of John Ridol, of Ramesthorpe and Ashley. F1. Thomas, son of Gilbert, m. a daughter of Sir Humphrey Stafford, Knight. F2. Turgitus de Stoke, kn. 20th Edward II, m. Alice, daughter of John Vessy. G1. William de Stoke, Rector of Ashley, called le Hunt, kn. 20 Edward II, m. ? a daughter of John Braybrook, Knight. G2. Henry de Stoke, kn. 10 Edward II, 19 Edward III, m. a daughter of John Bellers. H1. Turgitus le Hunt, m. a daughter of Sir John Wake, Knight. I1. Theobald le Hunt. But here is the actual fascinating part. In trying to deal with the Latin (any Latin scholars here?) I find this…. Panicum turgidum [1] is an old world clumping desert bunchgrass of the genus Panicum. It is a plant of arid regions across Africa and Asia, and has been introduced to other parts of the world…. It is common across the Sahara and Arabia, from Senegal to Pakistan, and known by a number of common names, most widely as Taman, tuman, or thaman in Egypt and Arabia; merkba or markouba in Mauritania and some Saharan Arabics; and afezu in Tamachek.[4] Other common names include guinchi (eastern Sahara) and du-ghasi (Somalia). It grows on sand dunes in hot, dry climates, and will also grow in latosols.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panicum_turgidum So might the Turgitus mean desert which would seem to be absolutely brilliant.

Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 2:58pm

“Turgitus le Hunt, m. a daughter of Sir John Wake, Knight.” https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Armitage-Hermitage-Y-DNA-linguistics-census.-place-name-map.jpg “Armytage, G. J. (1870)” https://archive.org/details/calendarofdocume02grea/page/298/mode/2up John Wake lands Nov 10, 1300 AD note; The Hermitage Castle was defended by the Elwald (ie Elliot). The ‘Ellot’, were brought down from Angus, after the Declaration of Abroath 1320, which established the lands of the Kingdom of Scotland, and the Hermitage Castle of the Douglas Earls of Angus.

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Lloyd Hunt

April 19 @ 3:13pm

Very interesting – so you know what my theory is that their may have been a bit of a social milieu among J’s at this time. I believe some Vesseys (variant spelling), Wakes and who knows how many others

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Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 3:38pm

There is kind of a split in the way the J-M172 comes into the UK, one way is the Aliot of Southern France then becoming ‘Eliot’ southwest England, the Britons another way is Anglo for south Denmark-north Germany ‘Elwald’ into East Anglia. My Y-DNA of a R-P312 splits and travels both directions, and I recognize there at this time was likely some J-M172 in the DNA add-mix.

Mark Elliott

April 16 @ 6:23pm

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/foster?iframe=ycolorized Just picking up that mainly J-M172 (Graham J-M267) among the borderers called Reivers which lived between Kingdoms or Scotland and England. Foster is one of them. Johnstone is a place name from Johnstone, Scotland nearby were Armstrong. In County Fermanagh, Ulster Ireland, Johnston without ‘e’ is 2nd and Armstrong is third in surname size. Foster is a border name and found in Ireland. Foster in County Fermanagh, Ulster, Ireland among the 1. Maguire, 2. Johnston, 3. Armstrong, 4. McManus, and 5. Elliott it is most concentrated.

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3 Comments

Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان

April 17 @ 2:58am

You wrote in Arabic 😁 i wish Ahmed Al Haddad will help.

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Glen Foster

April 17 @ 5:48am

Thanks again! 🙂

Lloyd Hunt

April 19 @ 2:47pm

There was a theory that the original Foster Foerster was a in fact a forester. As an aside obviously not Y but my family tree – is teaming with the two

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Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 3:11pm

Lloyd Hunt, Not theory, the name Foster, Forrest is occupational, meaning Forester, my early name Elwald part stems from the German ‘wald’, meaning Forest. It strongly relates to Hunt(er), in arms are utilize the ‘hunting horn’. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/elk-head-and-antlers-Elwald-Hunters-and-Foresters-hunting-horn.jpg note; The ‘Horn of Ulf’, is kept in York. https://archive.org/details/chroniclesofarms00arms/page/n13/mode/2up

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Mark Elliott

April 18 @ 10:24pm

https://named.publicprofiler.org/ https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Richter Because J-M172 DNA has been around a long time, it seems to be among other Y-DNA groupings in migration, this is a example of a block group which are related. Most of Germany, most likely Saxony, with the name Richter occupational for judge. The Carson because closeness of Y-DNA is related, like from Anglo-Saxon migration into England then out at Ulster, Ireland. It seems like a lot of the J-M172 are of the borders and migrated so. To block out name sets with this diverse group, it takes a knowledge of the language of these particular groups, which I do not have but hopefully others can blog out Y-DNA of family groupings they would have a knowledge of. This is a community south of where I live called Zuñi, which has been here before Europeans, and were attacked by Coronado in 1540. Have a Speckle Egg story, about two groups picking from two eggs, and the Zuñi choosing first the speckle one they ended up with crow, and stayed in their region at Zuñi, the other ended up with parrot and went south. Zuñi of the Q-DNA which went into South America. If the people of Zuñi traveled south, the way to find them is to bring a Zuñi and see if they can find people speaking a similar language. DNA travels with language. This group has many people of many languages which could help travel the language and the surnames, to find the migrations of the J-M172 DNA.

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Glen Foster

April 19 @ 1:57pm

My wife’s grandmother was a Carson. So her location in the Cavan/Ulster matches my wife’s mother and father (McManus/Leonard). location Map matches our records and knowledge – https://named.publicprofiler.org/ . Another puzzle piece.

Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 1:54pm

https://forebears.io/surnames/hayes http://www.jmhartley.com/HBlog/category/heading/ydna/ There are names which migrate to Hardrian’s Wall which carry the J-M172, though they may be written in various languages, the phonetics sound could likely show similarities. The above though for the rare R-P312 in my region which I’m of can be applied to the rare J-M172 in the region also. The family name which was used in the above in Lentz, the name from the Middle East is Hayes, and the matching are shown in the charts. It helps to have Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد in the group because he knows both the Arabic, and the English, he should be able to recognize surname similarities, though the patterns in which they are used; a different the elements should show similarities. After all he knows I can’t handle the Arabic. Hay in Arabic القش straw. Though https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ is an excellent genetic project, done by an international staff, utilizing auto-somal regional DNA, it did not have to contend with language, because it only dealt with the DNA, not the surname.

Mark Elliott

April 19 @ 8:30am